128794-factions
Content ---- ---- It honestly wouldn't be too far-fetched, either. Considering the massive threat of the Strain and the Entity, it would make sense to put aside prior grudges and band together for the sake of the planet/universe. | |} ---- ---- ---- IF Domis wipe out every Chua, they can join the exile otherwhise no. | |} ---- Why would doms kill chuas? I'd like to think even the science crazed chipmunks would recognize a common threat. | |} ---- Because i dont like them, i dont want them in my guild/raid/dungeon. Thats why im Exile! | |} ---- Well... Outside of the playerbase being mostly Exile... lore wise it is actually somewhat odd that the Exiles even survive. The Dominion is an entire galactic empire but the Exiles are basically one space ship and a couple of orbital vessels... And now... the Dominion knows where that ship is located. So if you were to merge the factions, the only logical merger would basically be one that annoys the 60-70% of players that are Exile... they would get 'rolled' and given an option to serve or die. But here we have a problem: - The dominion has issued a kill order against the Mordesh due to their plague. The other races all have conflicts that could be resolved at a bargaining table / terms of surrender... But any merger essentially means extinction for the Mordesh. And there is no real lore reason why this doesn't just happen... We're suspending logic anyway just to let the Exile faction still exist, because the lore wrote the imbalance of these factions to such an absurd extreme in favor of the Dominion. As for the logical response to the Strain / Entity... nuke the planet from orbit. Heck the Dominion would logically due this WITHOUT issuing an evacuation order... Especially in order to avoid the risk of contamination. PLUS... nuking the planet helps cover up how humanity was so manipulated / abused by the Elden... if the truth of the Torine alone ever got out to the galaxy, the Dominion would be facing not just one band of Exiles, but an empire wide collapse leading to a space-version of something like Europe after the fall of the Roman empire... | |} ---- ---- Give the option to opt out of cross-faction, for the faction purists, like you can do for your own realm. | |} ---- ---- The Dominion has done that for all Exiles. They don't suffer terrorists :3 The Mordesh are virtually extinct anyway. The Dominion would never "nuke" Nexus; it's a sacred planet to them. Also, that's a bit unfair to the Eldan. That the races and civilizations in the galaxy exist at all the way they do now is essentially all because of the Eldan. I'm not sure how exactly revolutionizing Life for Cassians (curing most disease and injury outright with nanites, weather and planetary control, materials and metals far beyond their techniques, etc) falls under 'abuse'. Manipulating, sure, but we manipulate all the lesser life forms on our planet too (cattle, poultry, intelligent marine mammals, etc). That Tresayne Toria is still alive wouldn't destroy the Dominion. TBH we already have cross faction groups (such as C.o.G.S.). No need to get rid of the factions, take a page from SWTOR's book and toss that W* flair into the mix. | |} ---- So like... what does Rift do? Never played that game. | |} ---- Going through WIldrun I've had at least one, maybe two quests where I was asked or thanked for destroying evidence of what the Eldan were doing before the Exiles and others could see it. So I think the Dominion already fears my scenario of the truth getting out. | |} ---- Basically Rift had the same setup that we have here at launch with 2 factions at each others throats, yadda yadda However overtime it became pretty obvious that faction imbalance was becoming a big problem and it was having some really bad effects on PvP BGs, instanced content, and depending what server and faction you were in you were either on the popular side or the unpopular side much like we have/had here. Eventually what happened was that they broke down the mechanical faction wall that divided the player base and so all content could be done with eachother regardless of faction, while still leaving the lore and quest chains and such to basically be "hey...those guys over there...they're bad...". You could form guilds, parties, and raids with the opposing faction and it was YOUR choice if you're a stickler for lore to be a purist and be a defiant/guardian only guild. The only place that your faction matters is on pvp servers and in open world pvp. Edited July 6, 2015 by Typrop | |} ---- ---- I think you misstyped there, It's if the exiles wipe out the aurins | |} ---- Heh, you can faction change in Rift without changing your race, too. It's how my husband made a Bahmi from an alternate dimension where Alsbeth never opened a rift to the Plane of Death, leading to Port Scion becoming a booming metropolis and the Guardians and Defiant living in relative harmony. (He faction-changed his Bahmi to Guardian.) | |} ---- It's pretty imbalanced on Jabbit (EU) PVE. On average there's between 2x and 3x the amount of Exile players in Thayd as there is Dominion in Ilium. If you go out and do endgame zone events where the two factions come into contact (eg Star-Comm and others) the population difference seems to be in the same sort of ballpark. It's always been this way on Jabbit, it's never been 50:50. And it was the same on the server I was on at launch too, Ascendancy. They should just scrap the barriers that prevent Exile and Dominion grouping and communicating (without a translator addon). It might have made sense at the planning stage, but in practical terms it makes no sense anymore. The storyline converges, let the factions converge too. Keep it optional of course. | |} ---- ---- Yes Dominion has a kill order on all Exiles. BUT is politics demanded it could be otherwise resolved for all but the Mordesh. Humans: This is just a simple negotiation to renounce the treason of their ancestors (its been 300 years if I recall right that they have been looking for that Exile spaceship). Aurin: Accept the harvesting of their planet, sign a loyalty oath, and become citizens of the galaxy again. Grannok: Much as the Aurin. There are many Grannok out there that are NOT part of the exiles, if assorted randomly appearing minor NPCs are any indication - so this is not a species wide kill order anyway. Mordesh: for the good of a galaxy, the infestation has to be purged. And here also makes a counter-point vis-a-vis the Strain... The Mordesh plague is equally bad. If one band of malcontents is willing to let a plague that bad loose on the galaxy because those with it swear they have it under control... what is to keep another band of malcontents from accepting some Strain people into their numbers and letting that spread? So we come back to: if this is really dangerous, nuke the planet from orbit, wipe out all life down there... and send bots and folks in contamination suits down to investigate things / purge counter-doctrinal evidence. - Besides.... those nukes would wipe out most of the Exiles that have foolishly chosen to land on a planet and let people know where they are... Game interest of course... is obviously overwriting lore-logic here... :) - So on game-interest we could have factional cross grouping... but faction merging... that would actually make MORE sense than the current faction split, given lore and the power of the Dominion... but as noted: it would mean everybody with a Mordesh toon would have to get a free race-change to something not extinct, or conversly... a Living Story that cured the Mordesh (which would then take all of the gothy-appeal out of the race)... | |} ---- I agree. I actually think the "factions" idea needs to end in MMOs. Unless you have WoW like population numbers, it just leads to issues. Wildstar is essentially a 4-server per region MMO that is half the size of 'official' population. All 'Factions' are after all... is a decision to have two servers share the same CPU... But I think we'd have to wait for an Expansion or a "Living Story" concept like Guild Wars to see the Factions actually merge... with some kind of story that explains the Dominion subjugating the rebels in such a way that doesn't anger every Exile player... Lore wise there is just no logical way the Exiles could win. In the lore the only outcome the Exiles can survive under is if they escape the planet and find somewhere to hide that the Dominion cannot find, or recognizes as independent - neither or which leads to a faction merge. The only other option, which could be an Exile victory... would be somebody finding a 'transdimensional drive' and sucking the planet into a pocket universe, thus equalizing the numbers enough and forcing Dominion to a negotiation table. | |} ---- Sorry, but no. The Contagion isn't as bad as the Strain. For one, it only affects the Mordesh and the Mordesh only. The Strain, meanwhile, doesn't affect only one species for every known species and, even worse, it can also infect computer systems through the Techno-phage. For two, the Contagion is only a problem if the Mordesh lose their access to Vitalus. At which point the problem is they become mindless savages. The Strain, meanwhile, spreads everywhere where there isn't exanite, revives the dead to join its ranks and quarantining it is a much harder affair than quarantining the Mordesh. For three, you can talk with the Mordesh. Reason with them. You could put them in a quarantine area, ensure they have a steady supply of Vitalus and that they are safe so they can research a cure on their own. That's the humanitarian thing to do with a disease. Not to leave them on a planet with no help at all until they are extinct. | |} ---- ---- fixed, i am an exile but i admite lore wise the dominion is the one who call the shots on this, seems like nexus is only another of their colonies | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Are they? The continued existance of the Exiles in Nexus for any lenght of time contradicts that. If the Dominion is in fact much more powerful than them, then it is not very well explained how the Exiles can have any kind of foothold in a planet that is sacred for the Dominion. The idea that the bulk of their fleets are elsewhere is very reasonable: they are a galactic empire, after all, and we know that galactic travel involves cryosleep. But it's actually not reasonable from a meta-persepctive. Because if that's the case, then we will be stuck in a "The armies are TOTALLY coming any time now, guys!" state in the game world forever. Which, to be honest, I don't recall was ever stated by any Dominion or Exile NPC anywhere, nor in any piece of lore. If the Dominion has an overpowering army coming at some point, there's no hint to it, meaning that's just speculation. (Though do point me where it's mentioned so I can correct myself. I probably missed it!) Then there's the other alternative, that the Dominion indeed does have that army, that they will arrive, and that the Exiles will be vanquished horribly. Which doesn't mesh well with the game's stablished two-faction dynamic very well. The third alternative is that the Dominion fleet will just go missing or get destroyed by a third party. The Ikthians are still out there, for example, and they seem to be enough of a problem in some places to require both the Dominion AND the Exiles working together to drive them off (like in Farside). Incidentally, one problem with the 'fix' on the War on Gnox: the granok were declared by the Dominion as a dangerous race that had to be exterminated. The whole race, not just some clans. This means there's literally no explanation why the Dominion didn't just 'napalm' Gnox until it was a barren wasteland. Guerrila tactics or not, there's not much you can do against orbital bombardment. Unless there are layers of exanite materials in that planet. In any case, both factions have to be equal in power story-wise (at least for now) if nothing else because otherwise one of the sides would have to stop existing. As much as I don't like the faction divide, it does add a layer of complexity to the world's story. What I do NOT think it should do is affect gameplay in any significant way. At most, restrict the hubs based on player faction. But not guilds, circles, chat or parties. Players can regulate those themselves because they are player-driven. Unlike Illium or Thayd, that are NPC constructs. Edited July 7, 2015 by Ildur | |} ---- if you play Dominion, it' s more like quadrupled ... | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- I really, really like this. | |} ---- The problem is that the Eldan are gods... Drusentity is what became of the top Eldan. For better and for worse, the Dominion and VC are correct in that the Eldan indeed ascended to godhood. | |} ---- Eh, depends. Drusera/Entity can easily be viewed as a huge mistake, considering what else it created. Very obvious fodder for disillusions masses. (I also tend to disagree that they became a god, as that has a bunch of mystical religious connotations. All the Eldan did was just science really, really hard. :P) Edited July 7, 2015 by Naunet | |} ---- ---- Because that kind of thing just doesn't happen. The only reason the Dominion doesn't absolutely crush the Exiles on every meeting is basically because for 'gamist reasons' Carbine has decided to have two factions survive. Unfortunately in lore, they did NOT write them as equal. This is not the Soviets versus the USA. This is not even the English versus the Colonists (the Colonists had allies in France and India - India indirectly in that it went into rebellion, aided by various European powers trying to kill the British Empire... and the British cut their losses with "13 unimportant colonies" to keep their important colony of India, and to head of a French attack in Europe - because well... they still had the northern colonies and just assumed, wrongly, that the 13 would collapse in a few years and come begging back to the crown.) No... the Dominion versus the Exiles is more like the entire Roman empire versus David Koresh's Waco Texas compound. The Exiles had one spaceship. The only reason they didn't get blasted out of the stars was because the Dominion couldn't locate that ship for 300 years... ... Now... they know where it all is. And the very moment any reinforcements arrive on Nexus... its all over... Except that for game purposes... that cannot happen. And if you actually read my posts instead of just went into knee-jerk rage at the suggestion that your Aurin get their ears tagged... - You'd see that I am already aware of the fact that the logical outcome, the ONLY lore-viable outcome in fact... would also anger 60-70% of the players... I'm not foolish enough to think the Dominion is popular with the playerbase. But I'm also not foolish enough to have some fantasy that the Exiles could actually survive if the outcome was based on lore rather than game-balance. I am NOT one of those advocating a faction merge. Again, if you actually read what I wrote you'd know that... I could use shorter paragraphs if it helps My point has simply been that a faction merge cannot happen, because the only logical merger is that the unpopular faction wins in a total victory, and this would annoy way too many players. As for cross-factional grouping - this dog doesn't have much of a bone in that fight. I think it'd be a good idea - and I think the best way to do it would be to just do it with random LFG tools and a bit of Jedi-hand-waving at the lore "these robots/bunny-girls are not the mechari/aurin you were looking for" and just say "game on... pretend its a protostar simulation if your must lore it... otherwise, just enjoy it." Edited July 8, 2015 by Kichwas | |} ---- Gods usually are mistakes. how I originally mentioned for better AND for worse ;) Any science that is sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from magic. Drusentity can create matter and life from nothing; can wield primal energy directly, is immortal, etc etc etc insert just about every definition and notion of a god here) personal religious qualms aside, Drusentity is pretty clearly a god (compare to the gods of Rome and Greece; India, Japan, JCM, etc). And? In Stargate the ancients ascended to godhood. Obviously not all of them; many died before hand, some became corrupt and formed the Ori... but at the end of the day; the ancients still ascended. The strain isn't a part of Drusentity, it's a creation of Drusentity. Regardless of the death or life of others, the top Eldan still became a god. What does it matter that after ascension they don't 'appear' Eldan? If you didn't see a butterfly before it emerged from it's pupae you would never suspect it came from a catepillar, so what? That doesn't negate the fact that the catepillar became a butterfly. And I'm pretty sure the Dominion and Exiles alike would absolutely worship Drusera; that the entity is also a part of the dualist deity isn't terribly different from any other dualistic religious figure / god. | |} ---- Actually, the Exiles have several ships. They only had the one Arkship though (that we know of). It's specifically stated that the Aurin helped the Exiles grow food on agriculture ships. Also, we know that the main fleet served as a distraction to the Dominion so that the floatilla of evac ships could make atmo and evac the Aurin from Arboria. With that knowledge? The exiles have more than just the Gambler's Ruin. However, the Exiles are pretty screwed. They have no supply lines, no life lines to anywhere else and are stuck on Nexus. The Dominion, if they didn't care about Nexus could, in fact, just leave the ground to blockade the planet and let the Strain just destroy the Exiles. Where would they go? They have no way out. If they don't? Reinforcements arrive and the Exiles are crushed. Either way, unless something truly ground breaking happens and the Exiles get a lucky break, they're screwed. | |} ---- From https://www.wildstar-online.com/uk/stories/brightlands-rebellion.html : "Brightland led a daring attack on the Dominion High Command itself, taking out myriad warships before withdrawing." Not only is Dominion civilians revolting (compare with your India example above), their fleet is also in shambles currently. The way that the Dominion got Brightland was that one of his friends turned back to the Dominion side and ambushed him. As for only one ship: "Beyond, Exile spindrives flashed one by one as the ships winked out." All players come from a single arkship on each side, true. But at the end of the Celestion story ark, you take out a Dominion warship on your own using an Eldan superweapon (IIRC), and in Grimvault you run into the wreck of another Exile arkship (if you are doing the Exile side story arc). So there are definitely more than one ship on each side... Also, the Wildstar storyline is weird pulp, not deep-down-in-the-muddy-trenches realism. I mean, just look at the Strain; each time we meet the Entity, in the Drusera arcs and at the Tree event, he is more trying to out-ham Dick Dastardly than come across as a credible threat, and as a hero you happily consume meat and decorate your house with wood from the contaminated areas. You even inject drugs made from contaminated plants directly into your bloodstream. This is an universe where Heroic Force of Personality means a lot more than logistics... Edited July 8, 2015 by Tuft Meadowgrass | |} ---- ---- That would be great for getting more groups popping on a regular basis. | |} ---- You missed my point that the simultaneous creation of the Entity and the Strain could very easily disillusion many in the Dominion towards the Eldan as perfect beings worthy of their worship. Perhaps many decide they don't want to be a part of an Empire founded on revering a people who brought about a universe-threatening plague in their misguided hunt for "godhood". Can you point to a specific source so we can get the exact context? Edited July 8, 2015 by Naunet | |} ---- Yep, if the faction walls do come down at some point I anticipate that this will be why. It won't have anything to do with which side has greater numbers or better tech. It will have to do with an altered understanding of who the Creators of the Dominion really were and what really led to their downfall. I was very interested to note that at the opening of the OMNICore-1 arc, when Myrcalus decides that he wants to help Drusera and then asks his advisors for their opinions, he gets 3 "yes" votes and one abstention. Who was the person who couldn't bring themselves to just endorse what was not only the pragmatic choice to fight the Strain, but also the Emperor's preferred course of action? Varonia Cazalon, head of the Vigilant Church. She has found Nexus to be the source of, in her own words, "many disturbing revelations". The Vigilant Church is being faced with the reality that the Eldan's Chosen People aren't going to be following the Eldan to any paradise and that the Eldan went extinct trying to fix their own mistakes. That's gotta be a bitter pill to swallow. I see hard times brewing for the "heart and soul of the Dominion". | |} ---- ---- Honestly if any race could pull it off I think the Lopp could. They've literally pretty much gone unchecked and are all over the place in neutral, dominion, and exile territory, and while they may prefer not to be hostile they've certainly shown they are capable of it if they really want to. Yattish is an army in and of himself...All it would take is for the little time bombs to just snap and we're all screwed. Though just putting this out there...I would not mind my new overlords being the Torine....not...at....all... Would kill for those lovely locks of theirs | |} ---- We all know why you really like the torine and it's not their hair :P. | |} ---- ---- While Cazalon was the lone voice of descent (with Toric abstaining), I'm fairly certian it's not for those reasons. I find Cazalon's caution to aid Drusera to be linked to the fact that you would in effect be helping both Drusera and the Entity; and things like that often backfire. Knowing Cazalon got her position by ousting a leader who twisted the truth to manipulate his follwoers though, does make me doubt her intent is solely to preserve some religious dogma, and lies more in the realm of pragmatism in not wanting to inadvertently arm the Entity while trying to help Drusera. I have a feeling at least if it was so important for the church Toric would have done more than just abstain. But it is an interesting point. Even if the VC collapsed though, it's doubtful it would be terrible for the Dominion. It would have pretty much no impact on the Draken and Chua; it would simply enfranchize the Cassians at large. Which begs the question... Why are Lopp still not a playable race???? | |} ---- Actually, Cazalon does not dissent, she simply doesn't put forward any advice one way or the other. She abstains. And she explains her reasoning for it: It would certainly be awful if the Dominion lost its way by actually worshipping Drusera as the god you claim her to be, no? And then Axis Pheydra chimes in with her own opinion, which--although clearly indicating that she views aid to Drusera as to only sensible route now, certainly also does not express what I would call a worshipful attitude towards Drusera, even considered separately from the Entity: Looking forward to hearing what she has to say on the subject once an "alliance" is no longer necessary, but she's clearly not thinking in terms of gods and worshippers. As for Toric, he also explains his reasoning for not chiming in: In other words, "I'm not qualified to have an opinion. Just point me in the direction you want and tell me who to fight." I can see how this lowborn rose through the ranks, he's raised "deference to his superiors" to an art form. Yeah, I'm sure the Luminai, Highborn, and Mechari would broker a peaceful power-sharing arrangement with the lowborns--and that the lowborns would be eager to accept such an arrangement with the people who have been subjugating them based on false pretenses for hundreds of years. :rolleyes: | |} ---- https://youtu.be/lKmSFiYApR8?t=3400 | |} ---- ---- Social inequality is very different from subjugation (the lowborn, chua, and draken are treated like minorities are in the U.S., not slaves). Toric may have high regard and respect for others; not all powerful low born do however (case in point, Corrigan Doon). Even if the lowborn were actually subjugated (e.g. African Americans in the U.S. under slavery; Indians under the Caste system) the removal of the institution causing the subjugation (e.g. slavery/castes) wouldn't destroy the Dominion. Change, sure, destroy, unlikely. Back on topic, It would be exceedingly simple to bring players on the factions together using interfaction groups. We already have some good ones in game, and could always come up with more... which would also add some interesting depth to the story as well. | |} ---- ----